By Kevin Clerici
Posted July 21, 2010 at 8:57 p.m., updated
July 21, 2010 at 10:38 p.m.
.
One hundred forty years ago, Pvt. James Sumner
was awarded the Medal of Honor — the Army’s highest honor — for his gallant
actions after a band of Apache Indians kidnapped a settler’s child.
His grave site, as just reward, should be a
place of the highest respect, says retired Marine Sgt. Craig “Gunny” Donor, who
has been on a near two-year quest to give Sumner a “proper burial” since
learning the war hero was among some 50 veterans interred at a
cemetery-turned-city park in Ventura where picnickers spread blankets and
flying disc-chasing dogs freely run and defecate on what he sees as hallowed
ground.
Donor learned Wednesday city officials and
others have little interest in seeing Sumner skip town.
“I’m not ready to give it up yet,” said
Wehan and other
commissioners acknowledge the dogs and animal feces are an unpleasant reality,
but insisted to Donor they’re committed to a long-delayed and potentially
costly effort to commemorate the more than 3,000 pioneers and former area
residents interred at the hillside park, under city control since the early
1960s.
In the meantime, Sumner’s grave has a bronze
plaque donated by a local veterans group and the park is mowed regularly,
Commissioner Sharon Troll said. “We are treating him pretty darn well, except
for the poop,” she said.
In a separate vote, the commission approved
the text and location of three temporary signs reminding visitors of the
memorial park’s past, but stopped short of deciding if and when the signs would
be installed.
Patricia Clark Doerner,
a local historian who has relatives buried at the 7-acre park between Main and
But Donor argued the city has had decades to
properly recognize the site, and now it is broke and clearly has no intention
of restoring the park to a cemetery. He said afterward he may seek a court
order.
“They craftily dodged the question,” Donor
said of the postponement. “They don’t want to make a decision.”
Even if the commission had sided with Donor,
it wouldn’t have likely put the issue to rest.
No one knows exactly what will be found when
crews begin digging where the skeletal remains of Sumner’s body are believed to
be.
A 2006 ground-penetrating scan of portions of
the cemetery park found intense ground movement in the soil there — as much as
an inch a year. The soil in the area slips so much, it
caused structural damage to a recreation center at the site, leading to its
demolition in 1972.
Records dating to Sumner’s 1912 burial also
are not as precise as officials would like, though burial lists and cemetery
plot plans do exist.
“Clearly, it’s not a matter of just saying,
‘Dig here,’”
Records show the cemetery had its first burial
in October 1862. Lack of maintenance by the Catholic Church allowed the
cemetery to fall into disrepair and become a hub for illegal activity. The city
agreed to take over in the early 1960s, converting it to a memorial park. Head
stones, vaults and grave markers were collected by descendants or removed, but
the remains of some 3,000 people were left in place.
Even Donor has doubts about what will be
unearthed, though he’s assembled a special team to assist in Sumner’s recovery,
including a bio-archeologist and graduate students from UCLA.
He also has the help of Gregg Walker, who is
in the cemetery business.
Walker, who now runs Walker Funeral Services
in
“But it’s not going to be a long distance
away,” he said from Wednesday from
According to Donor’s research and Army
records, Sumner, a 28-year-old immigrant from
That was in 1869. President Ulysses S. Grant
awarded Sumner his medal in 1870. Sumner later migrated to
“He has no family, no one else to stand up for
him, except for his brothers and sister in arms,” said Donor, 65, a retired
aircraft engineer from Fontana and a state captain for the Patriot Guard
Riders, a motorcycle club that honors fallen vets.
Seeing dogs run free and defecate on or near
Sumner’s grave makes Donor’s blood boil. “Something had to be done,” he said.
“That’s when I decided to take up the cause.”
No one knows where Sumner’s Medal of Honor is
located, and it very well could be buried with him, providing critical evidence.
“That would be proof positive of him,” Donor
said. “We are ready to move whatever is in that grave site. We take to heart
the pledge to never leave a soldier, or infantryman, or airman behind.”
© 2010 Ventura
City just wants to make sure a
few more dogs relieve themselves on this veterans
grave.....
Perhaps some people would rather
honor those buried there by retoring the place to a overgrown, weedy, unkempt trashy yard like it was before?
I would rather see a nice, clean park area. So what if a dog or homeless person
uses it occasionally. They certainly don't mean to disrespect anybody buried
there. They know they will also have a similar destination some day.
in
response to redhat:
Perhaps some people would rather
honor those buried there by retoring the place to a overgrown, weedy, unkempt trashy yard like it was before?
I would rather see a nice, clean park area. So what if a dog or homeless person
uses it occasionally. They certainly don't mean to disrespect anybody buried
there. They know they will also have a similar destination some day.
Like it was before what? I grew
up playing in that park in the 70's And took my kids there through the 90's
until people started letting their dogs run free....We always read the markers
and took the time to contemplate the buried. I have never seen that park in any
sort of disrepair other than the land mines left behind by mans best friend...
If he were my relative, I'd say
leave him be to rest in peace. His soul is not buried there, just his remains.
His honor is not buried there, just his remains. His memory is not buried
there, just his remains. I'd take a dog park over a stone garden for my eternal
resting place in a heart beat. Dog spelled backward is after all, God.
I would love to have a dog park
above my final resting place. Dogs are beautiful creatures. And these wonderful
dog owners care enough about their dogs to make sure they get out, get exercise
and socialize. There is nothing wrong with having a dog park there. With all
that's going on in the world, THIS is what bothers people?
in
response to rebel123:
If he were my relative, I'd say
leave him be to rest in peace. His soul is not buried there, just his remains.
His honor is not buried there, just his remains. His memory is not buried
there, just his remains. I'd take a dog park over a stone garden for my eternal
resting place in a heart beat. Dog spelled backward is after all, God.
aside from the dog spelled backwards part, i fully agree with you. if i were buried in a cemetery that doubled as a dog park, i'd have no problem with poo six
feet above my decaying body... especially if it's a responsible owner who picks
it up.
and the park (which it is now) is big enough
for dogs to play on one part and for families to play on another.
I LOVE dogs, but I keep mine on
a leash in public. I also pick up after my dog, and sometimes I pick up after
strangers dogs, so that dogs don't get a bad 'rap'.
So about this 'park'
SIMPLE: A sign saying "Dogs must be on a leash" and then fine the violaters.
Remember I do love dogs, but
humans must be held responsible for their offspring and pets.
Redhat's talking about pre-70's
Every few years, someone is
upset about some aspect of the park - never mind there's a parking lot there
where over over 100 nameless Chumash are buried, or
that there are at least that many in other unmarked graves in the grassy area
of the park itself...
How about a few signs reminding
dog owners to mind where thier dogs poop?
I grew up directly across Main
Street from the old "City Cemetary", played
in it, watched funerals occur there and every Fourth of July and Memorial Day
took part in the celebration and honoring of Veterans at the Grave of the
Unknown Soldier. If I remember correctly the remains in that grave were of an
unidentified warrior whose barnch of service was not
known. the memorial was a beautiful white marble spire
with appropriate markings on a marble bench at the bottom. The cemetary itself was never in a state of disrepair, maintainence tools, mowers, rakes and grave digger's tools
were kept in a crypt like stone hut above the Chinese section of the cemetary. It wasn't until the far seeing city fathers tore
down the '
The only thing they could do, make it a park so the parking lot would not go
unused. Headstones that had marked the graves of pioneer Venturans
were summarily uprooted and thrown into
in
response to jws345:
I grew up directly across Main
Street from the old "City Cemetary", played
in it, watched funerals occur there and every Fourth of July and Memorial Day
took part in the celebration and honoring of Veterans at the Grave of the
Unknown Soldier. If I remember correctly the remains in that grave were of an
unidentified warrior whose barnch of service was not
known. the memorial was a beautiful white marble spire
with appropriate markings on a marble bench at the bottom. The cemetary itself was never in a state of disrepair, maintainence tools, mowers, rakes and grave digger's tools
were kept in a crypt like stone hut above the Chinese section of the cemetary. It wasn't until the far seeing city fathers tore
down the '
The only thing they could do, make it a park so the parking lot would not go
unused. Headstones that had marked the graves of pioneer Venturans
were summarily uprooted and thrown into
The Medal of honor
IS the Army's highest awarded medal. It is the highest awarded medal in any
branch of the service. It is NOT the Nations highest award as one has to have
been in the Military to have received it. As far as the park
goes...... I think they should build some type of memorial to honor ALL
the veterans buried there.
The ultimate in disresect to our fore fathers. Since when does dogs rights
trump over man?
I say just remove the DOGS
It seems that the dog owners
leaving their dog’s sh!t all
over the park is the problem.
Why not have dog poop bags at
the park so inconsiderate m0r0ons can pick up their dog’s sh!t?.
Still think playing, picnicking
or laying down reading a book at that park is creepy with dead bodies
underneath.
"In the meantime, Sumner’s
grave has a bronze plaque donated by a local veterans group and the park is
mowed regularly, Commissioner Sharon Troll said. “We are treating him pretty
darn well, except for the poop,” she said."
That comment is unbelievable!
With 7 acres of parkland,
certainly there is an acre or so to be fenced off for the dogs to run and play
in. This is just not right to disrespect the heroes of the past in this way!
Come on
in
response to lagfactor:
aside from the dog spelled backwards part, i fully agree with you. if i were buried in a cemetery that doubled as a dog park, i'd have no problem with poo six
feet above my decaying body... especially if it's a responsible owner who picks
it up.
and the park (which it is now) is big enough
for dogs to play on one part and for families to play on another.
At first this article reminded
me of a history class, it's good to know the background but come on Star a
little bit too much information.
Anyhow, I agree with both
comments. Dog owners just have to be a little bit more considerate picking up
after their poochs. Their is
no disrespect here. Nuff said...
I would like to see people quit
referring to the park as a dog park. It is a park that attracts many people who
bring their dogs. The dogs tend to be in a smallish section that is not even
half the park. The dog owners do a good job of picking up after their dogs and
rarely do I see anything that they might have missed. I use this park quite a
bit and the fact that dogs are often there does not get in the way of my
enjoyment of it.
Now, I know several people who have the cremains of
their loved ones in a card board box in the closet, or
in an urn on the entertainment center with
The City of
I'm ashamed of this inaction and
disgrace
This guys' been dead over a
hundred years - he's gone. His soul is wherever it is, and his skeleton is
probably almost completely decayed. Does it really matter where a body decays?
I certainly wouldn't want my family to spend a dime moving my skeleton from one
place to another - if I'm dead - I'm dead. My corpse has no meaning at all.
On the other hand, the dogs
should go. We shouldn't have anything that is apt to poop on the lawn running
around where kids play. Parks are for people! Live ones!
Why are people
worried about this now, the cemetery was turned into a park 40 years ago. Now
that it is news the native americans
will start crying that this is their land taken from them brutily
by this man.
in
response to CamarilloMom2:
This guys' been dead over a
hundred years - he's gone. His soul is wherever it is, and his skeleton is
probably almost completely decayed. Does it really matter where a body decays?
I certainly wouldn't want my family to spend a dime moving my skeleton from one
place to another - if I'm dead - I'm dead. My corpse has no meaning at all.
On the other hand, the dogs
should go. We shouldn't have anything that is apt to poop on the lawn running
around where kids play. Parks are for people! Live ones!
Just so you know there are
millions of pets in our county and uumm they're here
to stay. What makes a good pet is socialization and exercise. Common sense
would tell me a dog park is a good idea not only for pets but for people as
well. I would much rather have a neighbor with a well behaved dog living next
to me than one that barks all night due to lack of exercise or interaction. Dog
parks are enclosed and don't affect kids running around because it would not
take the entire space.
“We are treating him pretty darn
well, except for the poop,” she said.
This woman thinks she's funny?
Pvt. James Sumner was awarded
the Medal of Honor and needs to be treated as a war hero.
This would be national news if
this site had Indian remains, the commissioners
wouldn't be making a joke about it either.
in
response to Tex_Watson:
“We are treating him pretty darn
well, except for the poop,” she said.
This woman thinks she's funny?
Pvt. James Sumner was awarded
the Medal of Honor and needs to be treated as a war hero.
This would be national news if
this site had Indian remains, the commissioners
wouldn't be making a joke about it either.
I completely agree.
Good morning it is a sad day in
the
in
response to Tex_Watson:
“We are treating him pretty darn
well, except for the poop,” she said.
This woman thinks she's funny?
Pvt. James Sumner was awarded
the Medal of Honor and needs to be treated as a war hero.
This would be national news if
this site had Indian remains, the commissioners
wouldn't be making a joke about it either.
I was thinking the same
Is she one sarcastic witch or what?
Maybe Bill Fulton can find this
guys relatives....and charge them back rent for the plot and upkeep.....
I think these people should be
tracked down and pelted with Dog droppings. See if they feel like they're being
treated well.
People have been dying for
thousands of years and buried all over the planet. It's all sacred ground.
Clean up after your pets. This is such a non issue, why does it keep being
resurrected?
Just another
example of the worth of a Vet to the Country. I served, am proud I served and think
that those that didn't should, at the very least, show some appreciation of
those that did.
This 19th Century hero and the
many others buried at Cemetary Park - at least those
with grave markers - get much more visibility and remembrance here than they'd
ever get in a fenced off public or private facility. My son and I learned about
Pvt. Sumner by literally stumbling over the plaque that marks his resting
place. We regularly return to the park to tour his and the other markers - and
yes, when we bring the dog we have a leash and bags. His name would still be
unknown to me if it were not for the accessibility to this well maintained,
beautiful park. Perhaps this biker group should leave him where he is so that
future generations can 'stumble' onto his legacy rather than letting him fade
into obscurity in another less trafficked location.
You people getting all bent out
of shape over this are pathetic. The grave is over 100 years old! So what if
it's a park now. No one cares but a bunch of uppity id10ts.
Why not construct a
Basic cultural anthropology
courses often teach that one of the evolutionary traits of mankind occurred
when there was a recognition and special treatment
offered for the dead, such as placing flowers, seeds, ornaments in a resting
place of the deceased. Has
It would not be repectful if you were a dog owner and let Fido run loose on
Arlington National Cemetary or something local like
Ivy Lawn for that matter. Why do it there?
in
response to westwind28:
Good morning it is a sad day in
the
Maybe we could move him to this
park:
http://www.congressionalcemetery.org/
or the hundreds of others around the country that have either created dogwalking programs or had old cemeteries turned into dual
use parks/cemeteries.
The park is, by the way, not a
legal "
“The earth belongs to the living
and not to the dead,” Thomas Jefferson insisted in an exchange of letters with
James Madison in the fall of 1789.
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
At this point in time, a central
memorial to the deceased makes more sense that restoring the cemetery to it's original state.
Such a monument would not
diminish the site's recreational value, and its presence would give the park a
touch of dignity.
That might be all it takes to
persuade the few negligent dog owners to bring plastic bags when they visit.
Superfluous you hit the nail on
the head!
Yes, it IS completely
disrespectful to the memory of these fallen heroes to allow dogs to run freely
and *crap* all over their graves. Think about it.
That some people can't see how
completely insulting this is shows how low we have dipped as a society and how
little honor there is left among us.
Dogs are ANIMALS...and are not
on the same par with human beings. (Although I could argue that some human
beings may be on an equal par with animals...)
This infuriates me...
in
response to 14_Fore:
It would not be repectful if you were a dog owner and let Fido run loose on
Arlington National Cemetary or something local like
Ivy Lawn for that matter. Why do it there?
EXACTLY.
It's bizarre how you guys keep
referring to this as "his resting place" and "treatment of a
veteran." The dead aren't resting - they're decomposing. And the time to
treat a veteran properly is while he's alive and aware of said treatment.
Why assign so much meaning to a
pile of old bones that have nothing to do with the man they used to inhabit?
The problem here is that people
are letting dogs defecate in public areas. If you want to have a pet, that's
wonderful, but it should defecate on YOUR property - not at the park where
people walk and kids play. Even if you pick the bulk of it up, you can never
get it all and it still leaves bacteria and parasites behind.
Notice none of the so very
concerned activists want to use or raise their own money to do anything to
respect the long dead and buried. They only beg to use scarce City funds.
Honoring the dead doesn't need to preclude the use of the living to enjoy a
park. These people need to let it be and find some other nonsense to occupy
their time.
Ban the dogs from the park.
Problem solved. Move on.
Every few years some nutjob has to start some BS about the park. It's a park
now, get over it.
in
response to Morethanyouknow:
I LOVE dogs, but I keep mine on
a leash in public. I also pick up after my dog, and sometimes I pick up after
strangers dogs, so that dogs don't get a bad 'rap'.
So about this 'park'
SIMPLE: A sign saying "Dogs must be on a leash" and then fine the violaters.
Remember I do love dogs, but
humans must be held responsible for their offspring and pets.
First off Thank you for being a
responsible pet owner for your pet and others!
You are soooo
right! People have to be responsible for their pets and offspring and
unfortunately they are not. It's a sign of the times, and in this case, people
would rather not honor, but rather have a place to let there dogs run and poo on our history. It's a shame that most are so wrapped
up in themselves.
This is a lot less about the
people that are buried there and more about self entitled dog owners that think
they deserve a place to let there dogs run free. They have no consideration for
people that choose to not have a hairy slobbering animal all up in there
picnic. Regardless of what anyone thinks a dog is not human, it is not just
playing, and no I don't care if it just wants to be my friend. It is a lot like
the people that take there dogs in restaurants and other public spaces and say
thing like he is part of our family or he is better behaved than most children.
If you don't live in a home where your dog can run free and be happy maybe you
should move and leave the parks for actual people to enjoy.
Weirdest thing about this story
is how many times the star has changed the title.............
I think it would be much easier to
ban the dogs then to move the bodies. I hate going to a park and having to
watch out for feces everywhere, even if its picked up
some remains, people step in it, and it ends up in our houses. Dogs should run
freely in dog parks not this park. I have a dog and I wouldn't take him places
where he might poop on peoples graves. Thats just terrible.
in
response to blue_eyes:
This 19th Century hero and the
many others buried at Cemetary Park - at least those
with grave markers - get much more visibility and remembrance here than they'd
ever get in a fenced off public or private facility. My son and I learned about
Pvt. Sumner by literally stumbling over the plaque that marks his resting
place. We regularly return to the park to tour his and the other markers - and
yes, when we bring the dog we have a leash and bags. His name would still be
unknown to me if it were not for the accessibility to this well maintained,
beautiful park. Perhaps this biker group should leave him where he is so that
future generations can 'stumble' onto his legacy rather than letting him fade
into obscurity in another less trafficked location.
Are you kidding me? Leave him in
a park where he is disrespected so "future generations can STUMBLE upon
him"? Wow.....cannot even believe I read that...I don't think moving him
to a NATIONAL cemetery is a LESS TRAFFICKED location...he would get the HONOR
AND RESPECT he DESERVES!
JEH -
Dog owners think they should be allowed to take their pets to the park, let
them poop and pee all over the place, approach strangers and romp in the
children's play area. And you're right - the poop issue is still absolutely
GROSS, even if the owner picks it up.
I say, ban dogs from all public places. And hint: if you don't have a big, private yard, don't get a dog! I'm sick of people in condos and apartments keeping inappropriate pets and then taking them out to greenbelts and parks to defecate.
I cannot believe some of these comments, obviously many people responding to this have no
respect for the dead, or our veterans. If Craig Donor has come up with a plan,
people to do this, experts and funds to move this hero, why don't they let
him?! He is doing the right thing, and the City of
Yet another
"Tempest in a Teapot."
I would rather have life going
on above me, than the silence of a Cemetary.
in
response to TatooU:
The ultimate in disresect to our fore fathers. Since when does dogs rights
trump over man?
I think the ultimate disrespect
to those who came before us is what we did to the native cultures everywhere we
tread on this land. We have no problem building on sacred sites as long as they
are some other culture's dead. Leave the old guy alone. He doesn't care!
in
response to CamarilloMom2:
JEH -
Dog owners think they should be allowed to take their pets to the park, let
them poop and pee all over the place, approach strangers and romp in the
children's play area. And you're right - the poop issue is still absolutely
GROSS, even if the owner picks it up.
I say, ban dogs from all public
places. And hint: if you don't have a big, private yard, don't get a dog! I'm
sick of people in condos and apartments keeping inappropriate pets and then
taking them out to greenbelts and parks to defecate.
I take it you don't have a dog.
As long as pet owners clean up after their pets and keep them on a leash when
not at an off-leash park, why do you have an issue? Even dogs with large yards
need daily walks and socialization outside of their yard. Yes, many let their
dogs run loose and don't pick up the poop. Those are not the majority of dog
owners or we'd be knee deep in dog poop. Chill. Maybe you need a dog. Studies
show they help lower blood pressure. Sounds like you may need one!
cupcake, couldn't agree with you more. No matter
which side of this issue you land on, that comment was the most callous and
insensitive thing I can think of to say to someone who's trying to honor
someone they respect and admire. All I can way is Wow!!
Wasn't there a recent article
that documented the exhumation and relocation of a civil war general (and U.S.
Senator) from this cemetery to Evergreen? Maybe it was prior to it being turned
over to the city.
Mr. Donor, He was not left
behind. He died at 72. He is in his grave. His Army days were long over.
"No Man Left Behind." applies to active duty military in combat.
Don't you have anything better
to do with your time? Our economy is in shambles, and you are going on about
someone who has been dead for 98 years. He doesn't care. Maybe you should pay
for it yourself, since it's such a big deal to you.
Most of us have better things to
be concerned with.
Get a Life!!!
And has it ever crossed your
mind that is were he wanted his bones to lie, in
And Yes, I am a Veteran of the
Vietnam War.
Leave him alone, and take your
agenda with you.
Rebel123-
I do not currently own a dog,
but I have in the past. I understood that my dog was my property and my
responsibility, and that other people did not necessarily want to be around
him, see him pooping and peeing on public lawns, or imagine what was just on
the grass before they sat down for a picnic with their kids. I kept him at
home, and exercised him in my yard. I think it is beyond arrogant for people to
take their pets into public places. Sorry.
Absolutely disgraceful! Those of
you that aren't outraged by the fact that dogs are defecating on the graves of
in
response to DestinationTruth:
And has it ever crossed your
mind that is were he wanted his bones to lie, in
And Yes, I am a Veteran of the
Vietnam War.
Leave him alone, and take your
agenda with you.
If you are really a Vietnam Vet
then you wouldn't spew such hatred at someone who just wants to do the RIGHT
THING, someone who is a fellow
in
response to GratefulAmerican:
If you are really a Vietnam Vet
then you wouldn't spew such hatred at someone who just wants to do the RIGHT
THING, someone who is a fellow
He is not stepping up to defend anyones freedom. No one is disrespecting anyones grave. It's a park now! And since you have not
served, you have no right saying anything to me.
The guy has been buried their
since 1912, and all of a sudden it's an issue. Nobody is walking their pet over
to his grave so the pet can dump on it.
Get Real,
if he is so concerned let him pay for it, not taxpayer dollars when times are
so tough.
in
response to DestinationTruth:
Mr. Donor, He was not left
behind. He died at 72. He is in his grave. His Army days were long over.
"No Man Left Behind." applies to active duty military in combat.
Don't you have anything better
to do with your time? Our economy is in shambles, and you are going on about
someone who has been dead for 98 years. He doesn't care. Maybe you should pay
for it yourself, since it's such a big deal to you.
Most of us have better things to
be concerned with.
Get a Life!!!
You should educate yourself, funds are there for moving HERO James Sumner,
thanks to Mr. Donor.
I did not make a joke about dog poop at this wonderful site. I did, however,
talk about how well Cemetery Park is kept and that Sgt. James Sumner's grave is
always trimmed and clean along with the other 3,000 plus war veteran's,
pioneer's , Chumash and people of all religious, colors and nationalities that
are buried there. I was making a statement about how we truly care about our
past and how I had researched the many Medal of Honor Awardees' final place of
rest and that Sgt. Sumner's final resting place is green, peaceful, well taken
care of with the one exception of yes, dog poop at Cemetery Park. No one wants
dog poop or any other kind of trash at
I am there every week or so and I walk around
I am thankful to all who came before me and left this beautiful area for us all
to enjoy. I admire them, I honor them and I will do all in my power to see that
their final resting place does not get lost or neglected like it did many year back. Everyone who was at that meeting knows this.
These statements are mine and mine alone. My opinions belong to me. If anyone
wants to speak with me, I am available. Contact the Parks, Recreation and
Community Service Department and they will give me your number.
Sharon Troll
So you write all this stuff and
call yourself a troll. That is pretty funny. I think GA is this Donor dude. And
it is a park, not a cemetery, it was a cemetery. And you are entitled to your
opinion, just as I am entitled to mine.
I am going to tick off some
people here. The Army in those days were nothing but a
tool for the railroad barons. To push Native Americans off
their land. This does not merit the CMH. He is not a hero,
he was just trying to save his own skin.
RE:the
commission approved the text and location of three temporary signs reminding
visitors of the memorial park’s past, but stopped short of deciding if and when
the signs would be installed.
But they were quick to raise the
pensions of
The chinese part of the area was paved over. It is the
original campo santo in
The mass grave site under the
parking area also contains irish,
native americans, and others that had no money for a
proper burial
in
response to CamarilloMom2:
Rebel123-
I do not currently own a dog,
but I have in the past. I understood that my dog was my property and my
responsibility, and that other people did not necessarily want to be around
him, see him pooping and peeing on public lawns, or imagine what was just on
the grass before they sat down for a picnic with their kids. I kept him at
home, and exercised him in my yard. I think it is beyond arrogant for people to
take their pets into public places. Sorry.
ha, what? you
exercised your dog in a yard? not to be a jerk or
anything, but being a responsible dog owner does not mean having a big yard. it means taking it out for walks, runs, swims, and to
socialize with other people and animals on a daily basis.
a public place implies for the PUBLIC,
which can include dogs at any time since the public has a favorite pet called a
dog.
I have been to that park
hundreds of times, all of the dogs I have seen there are OFF lease(against
the law), and defecate without being picked up(against the law). Homeless litter(used drug syringes and alcohol containers) and
defecate in the park. I have NEVER seen anyone cited for law breaking EVER. If
http://www.restorestmarys.org/
i've also been to that park hundreds of times with my dogs, and have
witnessed the city and police coming to tell everyone to leave and to cite
people. archer, it DOES happen, and you may be happy
to know that it is happening more. however, not once
have i found syringes, alcohol containers, or have
even seen homeless people using it. the worst is the
poop if someone doesn't pick it up. if i see someone's dog poop and they don't pick it up, i give them a bag.
"cemetery"
park is now a park. it will no doubt have the same
issues with dogs and irresponsible dog owners just like any park does.
If you were to remove all the
headstones and flush markers from the graves at
When 100 year old local pioneer graves can have their headstones stolen by the
City and ok'ed by the same City Council, you have to
realize that the scum in our society has risen to the top and now calls
themselves the our elected leaders.
The City was charged to the upkeep of the cemetery and stopped maintenance to
merit the coming mass desecration. It is against the law what the City did.
Military And Veterans Code, Sections 920-931; 940-950 and more specifically
Sections 960-962.
§ 3105. Title to cemetery grounds. The title to lands
used as a public cemetery or graveyard, situated in or near to any city, town,
or village, and used by the inhabitants thereof continuously, without
interruption, as a burial ground for five years, is vested in the inhabitants
of such city, town, or village, and the lands must not be used for any other
purpose than a public cemetery. [Emphasis added.]
Health and Safety Code Section 8126 (Stats. 1939)
See for more information:
http://restorestmarys.org/Sue%20Silve...
It is against Catholic Canon Law for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles to give
consecrated graves to a secular body, let alone build a school house on top of
consecrated graves. By their own law, they must exhume the consecrated graves,
re-inter in consecrated ground and then and only then can they give a cemetery
away.
The City of Ventura got so good at grave desecration, they exported their
talent to the City of Whittier and their Mt. Olive and Broadway Cemeteries
renamed Founder's Memorial Park with it's now 2,380 desecrated graves: http://tinyurl.com/yzp4gb7
And as soon as they could, they went down to the Calvary Cemetery at the invite
of the City of San Diego and with the help of the Archdiocese of San Diego
desecrated another 4,000 known graves there: http://tinyurl.com/dypxxn
If you include the 3,850 desecrated graves beneath the Holy Cross School next
to the Mission on Main St.(just dumb old native American graves), the City of
Ventura has their desecration fingerprints on a whooping total of 13,230
desecrated graves throughout Southern California.
These were tired and war torn Americans mostly, leaving behind the horrors of
the Civil War and moving to
Little did they dream that their
very graves would be hunted down by the City of
There are 3 city governments and
2 Catholic Archdioceses that DO NOT want anyone to know what has happened the
our pioneer Americans and their graves.
Americans are good at opinions.
But opinions are not always the best measure of truth.
This is a cemetery issue. It is
not a 'dog park' issue.
As much as dog owners are being
manipulated through the city to be used as a cover to make the apperance of an acceptable change, it is still a cemetery.
Dog owners are passionate folks,
rightly so. Emotional connections are often easier for people to connect to a
dog than to try to connect to a person for various reasons. If mankind would
love our neighbors as we loved our pets, this would be a kinder world, but we
do not invest in this, we avoid it selfishly more often than naught.
The City has failed, the
citizens of
At the end of the day, the only
thing that sets this right is to replace and repair damage. Opinions could
dismiss all day long arguments and postures, but you still have a cemetery that
has been desecrated. You still have federally violated military graves that are
protected by law. I doubt anyone in the City will rectify this problem, not
even with creative solutions for funding and community suport
or participation, because people do not care, cities do not care and they are
elected by the people, who do not care, it is a selfish model we trust, not a
selfless one.
The City doesn't even enforce
the 'no leash' law, and dog owners do not respect that law. I've been to the
cemetery and witnessed this, and I feel a deep personal reverance
for the souls buried here. I wonder if anyone else feels this is actually wrong? If my sisters grave were here I would be devastated,
thankfully she is not buried here.
Thousands of
graves. Like most
things that are wrong, we look the other way, because we are Americans. We
don't stand for anything that is good anymore, let alone respectful to others. And to our dead? Lip service until the grieving is over, then move out of the way. No respect. Apalling.